The Autonomic Homeostasis Activation Podcast

Beneficial or Detrimental? The Five P’s of Wellness

Thomas Pals and Ruth Lorensson Season 3 Episode 9

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Interoception, homeostasis, and the autonomic nervous system frame this insightful exploration of the Five P’s of Wellness—an intuitive framework to determine what truly supports or hinders your well-being. Hosts Ruth Lorensson and Tom Pals map practical applications of the Five P’s (Purpose, Presence, Practice, Processing, and Play) into the neuroscience of somatic healing, trauma recovery, and holistic wellness.

What You’ll Discover:

  • The core of each “P”, and how it shapes nervous system regulation—purpose clarifies direction, presence anchors you in awareness, practice stabilizes patterns, processing unlocks healing, and play reclaims joy.
  • How interoceptive awareness allows you to tune into what each P is doing in your system.
  • Science-based tools for promoting homeostasis, self-regulation, and whole-body wellness.

Why It Matters:

The Five P’s provide a simple but powerful map to assess and adjust your routines, habits, and mindset—from a living systems perspective. By listening to your body’s signals (via interoception) and fostering balance through each P, you cultivate resilience, clarity, and integrated wellness.

🎧 Tune in for a grounded, story-rich conversation that helps you differentiate what’s beneficial versus what’s detrimental—so your autonomy and well-being shine through.

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Email Tom thomasjpals@innerworkings.org
Email Ruth ruth@bridgeandrhino.com

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Tom Pals

(0:02) 

Welcome to the Autonomic Homeostasis Activation Podcast.

 (0:07) 

I'm Tom Pals.

Ruth Lorensson

(0:08) 

And I'm Ruth Lorensson.

 (0:09) 

We'll be unpacking what it looks like to activate your brain to holistically manage stress and trauma to facilitate homeostasis.

Tom Pals

(0:17) 

Being free to experience wellness in body, mind and spirit.

Ruth Lorensson

(0:22) 

Thank you for joining us.

 (0:24) 

Let's get this conversation started.

 (0:25) 

Well, we're here again with you, Tom, and a conversation all about wellness.

(0:32) 

I'm excited about diving into this conversation because we're going to be talking a little bit about what's, well, not a little bit, a lot, actually, about what's beneficial and what's detrimental.

(0:44) 

This lens that's so crucial if we're, if we are to kind of envision a journey of wellness, so to speak, this is the lens that we need to, we get to have on this journey.

 (1:02) 

Beneficial, detrimental.

(1:03) 

Do you want to just kick us off with that first?

 (1:06) 

Like, why are we talking about these words?

 (1:09) 

Like, what's the difference?

(1:11) 

In your experience, Tom, I know that, you know, we can use the other words that can help us determine things, but these are the two that you've really landed with that seem to really, really kind of help us know whether something is good and well and full of wellbeing or something is towards illness, right?

Tom Pals

(1:34) 

Yep.

 (1:35) 

So beneficial versus detrimental.

 (1:40) 

Beneficial means it contributes to wellbeing.

(1:45) 

It contributes to something.

 (1:47) 

It is beneficial.

 (1:48) 

It is something that contributes to something becoming healthier, more productive, and detrimental is something that takes away, that hinders, that alters in a negative way.

(2:05) 

And seeing things from that discrimination of, is this beneficial or is it detrimental?

 (2:16) 

Not, do I like this?

 (2:19) 

Do I think this is beneficial because it aligns with some thing or some cause or whatever?

(2:28) 

Does it create a benefit to the situation, to people's lives, the people we're involved in?

(2:38) 

Does it benefit them?

 (2:41) 

Or is this detrimental?

(2:43) 

There are a lot of times that we confuse them.

 (2:46) 

We think something is beneficial when the actual impact it has is detrimental.

 (2:55) 

Yeah, go ahead.

Ruth Lorensson

(2:57) 

Well, I was just thinking because like, it's funny because, you know, we've been doing this podcast now for many years and obviously this language is familiar to me now because we've been talking about it for many years.

 (3:09) 

And so I often ask, you know, it's become, I've adopted it as my own language and, you know, so when something happens, like an opportunity or a situation, I do ask myself, is this beneficial or is it detrimental?

 (3:24) 

And I found myself, it's better language for me.

(3:28) 

So I think in the past I would, maybe it's like, is this good or is this bad?

 (3:32) 

It doesn't quite get you there.

 (3:34) 

You know, it's not giving you the accurate information for you to make the decision.

(3:42) 

And so I think it's just really good.

 (3:43) 

I was just going to say, because I think we do have different language of, you know, is this wise?

 (3:48) 

Should I do this?

(3:49) 

But actually, does this provide benefit for me and others?

 (3:54) 

Or is this going to be detrimental for me and others?

 (4:00) 

It's just a really good, you know, it's just a really good place to be to have that lens.

(4:09) 

So I just want to advocate for it, I guess.

Tom Pals

(4:13) 

Yes.

 (4:15) 

And so when it comes to wellness and moving toward and prioritizing a sense of wellbeing, that's a mutual thing.

 (4:30) 

To experience wellbeing as a human being involves more than just you.

Ruth Lorensson

(4:39) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(4:40) 

And so what we're going to be looking at are five fundamental issues, items, whatever the word is, aspects of wellness and wellbeing that profoundly influence it in a beneficial way or in a detrimental way.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:09) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(5:10) 

And there are five things.

 (5:11) 

They happen to all begin with P, but that wasn't my point.

(5:18) 

It just happened to be that way.

(5:21) 

And the first one was people.

 (5:24) 

So we're going to look at these five aspects of wellness and wellbeing through the lens of beneficial or detrimental.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:34) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(5:35) 

So people.

 (5:38) 

Are people essential?

 (5:42) 

We are one.

(5:43) 

We live among them.

 (5:46) 

There is mutual impact, but we get to be selective.

 (5:52) 

We don't have to just have people in our lives, lots of people, or exclude them.

(6:00) 

So when it comes to people, think about wellbeing and wellness and the impact, beneficially or detrimentally, that people have on that.

 (6:15) 

Yeah.

Ruth Lorensson

(6:15) 

So this is, you know, last, I think it was the last episode.

 (6:21) 

And if you're listening, maybe go back one.

 (6:23) 

But this is an expression really of that extended homeostasis.

(6:28) 

So what we're saying is, is we can't, we cannot see wellbeing as an isolated thing that we can control all on our own just for me.

 (6:37) 

It's like wellbeing is a community venture.

 (6:41) 

And so when we have, you know, we know that with the practice of AHA, we can facilitate homeostasis within our body, within our mind, within our spirit, when we practice it through a session with you, for example, Tom, or a practitioner.

(7:00) 

But the idea is that homeostasis, the full scope, it's not an add-on, it's the full scope of homeostasis involves our surroundings.

 (7:11) 

And we talked about that last time.

 (7:13) 

And this is part of that.

Tom Pals

(7:15) 

Absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(7:16) 

Yeah.

 (7:16) 

Okay.

Tom Pals

(7:17) 

So a little exercise that I sometimes will have people do is, I want you to make a list of the people who are in your life.

 (7:28) 

And oftentimes they'll get out old school paper and pen, or they'll get out their little, their phone or whatever, and make a note that they'll start listing the people.

 (7:42) 

And a couple of things that's interesting is, one is the person themselves on their list.

Ruth Lorensson

(7:50) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(7:53) 

Oftentimes they don't put themselves on it.

 (7:57) 

It will be a friend or a partner or a child or an acquaintance or all sorts of different people who have had an impact on their lives or are having an impact on their lives.

 (8:12) 

And when we look at the list together, and I'll say this, there seems to be somebody missing that I know is significant to you.

(8:22) 

And they'll go, well, what?

 (8:24) 

How would you know that of all, you don't know all the people I know.

 (8:29) 

And I said, no, I do.

(8:30) 

And the person that I'm seeing that isn't on your list is you.

 (8:36) 

You didn't put yourself on that list.

 (8:39) 

You don't have to be the first one on the list, but someplace on the list you want to have you on that list.

(8:46) 

And then to look at that list of people and how much impact does each one of those people have on you, because somebody can have a really profound impact, but you may not spend the majority of your time with them, or you may spend the majority of your time with somebody and they are the most impactful.

 (9:11) 

So looking at that list of people, hopefully you're on it.

 (9:15) 

And then from the perspective of how much impact does that person have on my well-being.

(9:26) 

And then two, from the perspective of this person has a significant impact on my life, is it beneficial or detrimental?

 (9:42) 

We don't have to have somebody on our list because they want to be on our list.

 (9:48) 

We don't have to do that.

(9:49) 

Some people feel that they do.

 (9:51) 

I don't have to have somebody on my list because I want them on my list.

 (9:58) 

Or other people say, this person should be on your list.

(10:04) 

Who are the people on my list, including myself, and what degree of impact do they have and is that impact beneficial, net, or detrimental, net?

 (10:18) 

See, because all relationships, there's some element of beneficial and detrimental.

 (10:23) 

But is the net impact of that person in my life beneficial or detrimental?

(10:34) 

And here's why.

 (10:35) 

Because the next P of these five that relate to wellness and well-being is purpose.

 (10:43) 

And purpose is, what is my purpose?

(10:47) 

What gives me significance?

 (10:48) 

What is my significance?

 (10:49) 

What can I beneficially contribute to my own life, other people's lives, to my world, and the world I live in?

(10:59) 

What is my purpose?

 (11:01) 

And if you think about it, how much impact do people have on our sense of purpose?

Ruth Lorensson

(11:10) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(11:11) 

I'll throw that out to you, Ruth.

 (11:12) 

How much impact have people had on your sense of purpose at different times?

Ruth Lorensson

(11:17) 

Yeah, I think, you know, as you're talking, I've got so many thoughts rushing through my mind, and I'm sure our listeners will too.

 (11:25) 

I think what we're saying is that people are incredibly important in our lives, but they can be, but yeah, they can go either way.

 (11:36) 

And actually, purpose is incredibly important to well-being too.

(11:42) 

And, you know, we know that.

 (11:43) 

We know, like, if you read, there's a book called The Blue Zones where it talks about all of these.

 (11:49) 

Have you read that book?

Tom Pals

(11:51) 

No, but I'm fascinated.

Ruth Lorensson

(11:52) 

It's a great book, and it came out years and years ago, and it's a study of all of the people that live for over 100 years.

 (12:02) 

Oh, okay.

 (12:03) 

And he goes around the world, and he goes to Japan and the Greek islands and all these different spaces to try and find, well, what is it then?

(12:12) 

You know, and it's funny because, you know, the Greek person is someone who walks five miles a day and drinks half a bottle of red wine for lunch.

 (12:19) 

But it's like real red wine, you know, that is like organic and goat's cheese and all sorts of stuff.

 (12:26) 

But they say there's one study in it where in Japan, in this one island off Japan where these elderly ladies, you know, they're over 100 years old, and they come for afternoon tea with each other every afternoon, and they plant herbs together, and they grow herb gardens.

(12:50) 

And the whole point of that was, this guy was saying in the Blue Zones, that one of the really key essential items of longevity, wellness and longevity is purpose.

 (13:03) 

You take purpose away, and then it's not there.

 (13:06) 

You can't really live that long without purpose.

(13:09) 

So, I mean, even on a survival level, purpose is key, but in terms of wellbeing, it's essential, you know.

 (13:16) 

So, I think those two things, you know, and then I love this connection that you've made with people and purpose.

 (13:24) 

We can't, I think, maybe we can go alone to some level on purpose, but people will influence us whether we like it or not.

(13:33) 

But we get to choose whether that's a beneficial thing or a detrimental thing.

 (13:37) 

And so, as you were talking, Tom, I was just like, obviously, my own life was- It was just like, I was having an end-of-life moment with all of my own experiences and just thinking about, oh my gosh.

(13:53) 

Because I think I've just made, you know, I think I've learned a lot about people.

(13:58) 

And as someone who's more extrovert in nature, who can like, kind of, you know, really enjoy a lot of people time and who is also a self-confessed, in therapy, people pleaser.

 (14:16) 

So, you know, I just think, oh, how does that, have I used the discernment needed in my life?

 (14:24) 

Probably not, not always.

(14:26) 

And actually there is an important, and it's not to say that every single person that's in your life has got to be influencing purpose in a beneficial way.

 (14:36) 

There's always going to be some people in your life that are, you know, more draining or, you know, you're giving more or whatever.

(14:44) 

But I think what we're saying is, you've got to have a few core people here that you're giving your time to and you're conscious of that, that you're investing.

(14:54) 

And they need to be the type of people that are benefiting you in a way that adds to your purpose.

 (15:03) 

That's correct, right?

Tom Pals

(15:05) 

Yep, absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(15:06) 

So I think for me, my lessons, I would say in terms of people, is that I think it's easy to be connected, be kind of pulled into all sorts of directions with people.

 (15:23) 

And actually you're not, they're not impacting, they might be great people, but they're not impacting your purpose, you're actually serving their purpose.

 (15:34) 

And I think for me, if I'd had that in, you know, when I think about my own history, if I'd had that kind of nice clarity, focus of, is this beneficial?

(15:45) 

Is this detrimental?

 (15:46) 

I think I would have made different decisions on occasion of, you know, and it's not to say that you can't serve someone else's purpose, but I think...

Tom Pals

(15:57) 

Contribute to it.

Ruth Lorensson

(15:58) 

Absolutely.

 (15:58) 

But I think sometimes, you know, it can feel like it's your purpose and it's not.

 (16:03) 

No.

(16:04) 

Does that make sense?

Tom Pals

(16:05) 

Absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(16:06) 

So I've definitely had some situations in my life where I've, you know, people have been great, they've been lovely, but actually when it comes down to it, they haven't served my purpose.

(16:16) 

I've been really serving theirs.

 (16:19) 

And then, but then also on the flip side of that, I think more recently I've experienced, and it's really interesting because my experience with people in the last three years has been very different to what I would deem, I guess, what I would have thought I would have liked, you know, like it doesn't, it's not my ideal.

(16:45) 

Like, so some of the things like I've missed, like I've not been in a team in the last three years.

 (16:51) 

And so I've not had that overlap of life with people, but I've had a few people who I feel like, oh, for the, probably for the first time in my life are those people who are, you know, very few are those people who are absolutely influencing my purpose for, for my benefit.

 (17:14) 

They're encouraging me that I feel I'm not alone.

(17:18) 

I'm on a trajectory.

 (17:20) 

I'm helping, you know, they're helping me and vice versa.

 (17:24) 

There's this mutual kind of lovely benefit in those relationships.

(17:32) 

But, you know, at the same time, there's dynamics that have been in play like, and I think that's, this is really interesting, this topic.

 (17:41) 

I feel like I've got less local people and more, there's a globalisation that's opened up, I think, to people.

 (17:52) 

And so I felt the lack of that sometimes, but then also just felt like the benefit of, I mean, we're fairly local, me and you, you're in Denver, I'm in Fort Collins.

(18:02) 

Right now you're in Washington, D.C. So I think that's what I'm saying is that technology has opened up people a bit more.

 (18:11) 

So it's a complicated thing, isn't it?

 (18:14) 

People, like, I think we've all, yeah, I think the life lessons are to choose wisely.

(18:23) 

Who are the people you're investing in?

 (18:25) 

And I love that idea that, you know, there should be a direction to purpose, a connection with that.

 (18:35) 

What do you think?

Tom Pals

(18:36) 

And it's our purpose, our individual purpose that can align with, that can support others.

(18:44) 

But it's your purpose.

 (18:48) 

Yeah, it's my purpose.

Ruth Lorensson

(18:49) 

And we were talking earlier about, you know, the differences between, and I do think it plays into this a little bit, the differences between extroverts and introverts.

 (18:58) 

Oh, absolutely.

(19:00) 

And as you know, I think there are errors on either side, you know, that we can make.

(19:06) 

So I think the propensity for an extrovert is just to be, you can spend all your time with people and never get, you know, never get the people that are going to do this for you.

 (19:19) 

And that's a lesson, I think, for me, that I've learned to be satisfied and content with a few, instead of the many that never, you know, you can live in a whirlwind of the many and it never really is beneficial.

 (19:35) 

It can be fun.

(19:37) 

It can be, you know, and that's okay.

Tom Pals

(19:41) 

Entertaining, lots of activity.

Ruth Lorensson

(19:43) 

But in terms of wellness, it doesn't do that.

 (19:46) 

You know, so there's something to be learned, I think, for anyone who's on that end of the scale of extrovert or people pleasing, especially because you end up giving yourself away to someone else's purpose very easily if you're a people pleaser.

 (20:01) 

But also as an introvert, you know, there is, oh, and one thing that for extroverts that they do is they forget, they're the ones who don't put themselves on the list.

(20:12) 

Because that, and I don't, you know, there could be a whole podcast episode on this probably, but, you know, there is a deferring to everyone else before it comes to yourself.

 (20:24) 

And I think for me, my lesson, Tom, has been not only to kind of discipline myself a little bit from the pull towards the many to the few and see the value of the few, but then also to go, oh, and there's me.

 (20:45) 

And how do I invest in me?

(20:49) 

And that, for me, has been my journey with people, I think.

 (20:52) 

But the introvert, I mean, you're more of an introvert.

 (20:56) 

Oh, yeah.

Tom Pals

(20:56) 

And the other side of that is the introvert.

 (21:00) 

And I like to liken and understand, help people understand extroversion and introversion, as it's a person and they're a battery.

 (21:13) 

And for an extrovert, they hook up the battery that they are to another person, and they are energized by that.

(21:22) 

And the introvert is a battery, and they hook up their cable to another person and it's draining them.

 (21:32) 

That's important and significant to know.

 (21:35) 

But as you just pointed out, that also tends to prioritize who the people are.

(21:45) 

For an introvert, their world can just kind of collapse into a black hole, and it's just them.

(21:53) 

Because in reaction to everybody's draining all this out of me, I'm just going to withdraw.

(21:59) 

But for the extrovert, they don't include themselves.

(22:04) 

It's all about everybody else.

 (22:06) 

So it's not just the, am I energized by other people or am I drained by other people, but does that and how does that include me?

 (22:17) 

So all of this, the people and the purpose lead just directly into the third one, which is perspective.

(22:29) 

Perspective is, what is my worldview and what is my place in this worldview?

 (22:35) 

My beliefs, my values, my value, my belief in me or others, et cetera.

 (22:45) 

And perspective, I was the assistant head of the art department in college, and one of the things I learned was about perspective in art.

(22:55) 

And so perspective in art is, is this piece or this painting or drawing, is it from the, from a far away perspective that is really broad, or is it right up close perspective?

 (23:14) 

What is the perspective?

 (23:16) 

So that's what perspective is about.

(23:19) 

Sometimes we can be so close to something that we lose perspective.

 (23:24) 

Or we're too far away from it and we don't have perspective.

 (23:29) 

And so this is a very broad thing that is about beliefs, values, those kinds of fundamental things.

(23:38) 

And what is my perspective on issues?

 (23:44) 

And when it comes to this, what is the perspective that I have on wellness?

 (23:52) 

And wellbeing, which go back, what's my purpose?

(24:01) 

And people are informing that purpose and people and purpose definitely impact perspective.

 (24:10) 

And an extreme version of that would be somebody who gets, winds up in a cult, people, purpose, perspective, detrimental.

 (24:24) 

Yeah.

(24:25) 

Wait, what?

 (24:27) 

This was represented as something that was not something I'm trying to escape.

 (24:35) 

Yeah.

(24:36) 

So people, purpose, perspective, and those people, purpose and perspective really impact perception.

 (24:50) 

And by perception, it's literally a sensory processing of information.

Ruth Lorensson

(24:58) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(24:59) 

Which from that perspective, what am I hearing?

 (25:06) 

What am I seeing?

 (25:10) 

What nonverbal communication am I being exposed to?

(25:15) 

What is my perception?

 (25:17) 

And you see how significant that is to perspective.

Ruth Lorensson

(25:22) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(25:23) 

Which was influenced by the purpose, which was by people.

 (25:29) 

And so this people purpose, perspective, perception, how am I perceiving myself, others, and situation.

 (25:41) 

I like to talk about perception of self, others, and situation, because if you take the first letter of that, it's an SOS.

(25:50) 

And an SOS would save our souls.

 (25:54) 

Yeah.

 (25:55) 

And I've gotten into a place where my perception is not of well-being, but of, am I even going to survive?

Ruth Lorensson

(26:08) 

And yeah, I was just going to say, you know, I think that, you know, these two, and I think that they're almost twins.

 (26:15) 

Would you say they're twins?

Tom Pals

(26:16) 

They're very much related because you can't have perspective without perception, and perception informs perspective.

Ruth Lorensson

(26:24) 

Yeah, but they're different, but they're really connected.

Tom Pals

(26:27) 

Absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(26:28) 

And then they are informed, very much so, by people and purpose.

 (26:36) 

but I do think that they are really important to the journey of wellness.

 (26:44) 

And especially, like, you know, I think that they do come into play, Tom, you know, when we're at this for a long time.

(26:51) 

Like, I just think that there are, I know for me, I was just telling you, before we got on the call, I was, you know, we always have a bit of a catch up, and you were asking how I was doing.

(27:01) 

I was like, I've had a funky few weeks.

 (27:03) 

I just feel like I'm like, you know, I'm in the middle of the year.

(27:07) 

I'm, I've got a few things, you know, I'm going to be ending my whole MBA in the end of September.

 (27:12) 

I'm in the middle of my dissertation, but I kind of felt like a little lost.

 (27:15) 

And whereas actually the reality is that that's not true, you know, but my perspective and my perception of where I'm at for the last week has been a little funky.

(27:29) 

You know, it's been like, I guess, just like, well, what am I doing again?

 (27:34) 

Like, where am I going?

 (27:36) 

That type of thing.

(27:36) 

And that's all perspective and perception.

Tom Pals

(27:40) 

And was very much related to people.

 (27:43) 

Yeah.

 (27:44) 

Who you could connect with, who I can't connect with.

(27:46) 

How am I connecting with them?

Ruth Lorensson

(27:48) 

Yeah.

 (27:49) 

So I think, you know, there are times in our journey that, you know, and I think we're all open to this, right?

 (27:56) 

Where we will, our perspectives and perceptions will throw us.

(28:01) 

And so, you know, and you, I mean, let's talk about it.

 (28:04) 

You know, with perceptions, you have, one of the big parts of the AHA approach to wellness is looking at our perceptions.

(28:14) 

And we've got, you've got something that you call the seemingly rational perceptions, which seem very rational to us, but they're not.

(28:25) 

And then the alternatives are these actual rational perceptions.

 (28:29) 

And we don't have to get into the, we can do this another time.

 (28:32) 

But I think the point is, is that perceptions can misguide us very much so.

Tom Pals

(28:40) 

Absolutely.

 (28:41) 

And create and inform the emotional environment that we live in, which can either be very healthy and thriving, or I'm not sure I'm even going to survive this.

Ruth Lorensson

(28:53) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(28:53) 

And so, the perception, and our sensory processing of information, and how that is related to, and a function of, and informs perspective, beliefs, values.

 (29:13) 

There are lots of people who have lots of values and beliefs, and frankly, they're horrific.

 (29:20) 

And they are not mutually beneficial.

(29:23) 

But there are those who have.

 (29:27) 

It's mutually beneficial perspective, which flows out of their purpose, their sense of purpose, which is informed by people.

 (29:38) 

And so people, purpose, perspective, perception, all of which contribute to passion.

(29:50) 

What is my passion?

 (29:52) 

And what's interesting to me is, and I've worked with a lot of people over the years, and they have been trying to figure out, what is my passion?

 (30:03) 

But they haven't considered people, purpose, perspective, perception, and why they are able to identify their passion, and support that passion, and live into that passion.

(30:16) 

Or they don't even have any idea what their passion is, because they haven't accounted for people.

 (30:28) 

And they have no purpose, and their perspective isn't beneficial.

 (30:37) 

And so their perceptions of themselves, others, and situations is off.

(30:44) 

And they don't even have an idea of what is my passion.

 (30:50) 

Does that even matter?

(30:52) 

Am I okay with that?

(30:54) 

See, the reason that's so significant is, because if we don't have an identifiable, an identified passion, this is my passion.

 (31:05) 

This is what I give my life to.

 (31:06) 

Then we run the risk of getting involved in all sorts of passions.

Ruth Lorensson

(31:12) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(31:13) 

And this feels so good, and I'm so passionate about.

 (31:18) 

Okay.

 (31:19) 

Is that beneficial?

(31:21) 

Is it detrimental?

 (31:22) 

Is it contributing?

 (31:25) 

Or is it taking away?

Ruth Lorensson

(31:27) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(31:29) 

If there's anything that human beings tend to be about, it's their passions.

 (31:36) 

Okay.

(31:38) 

That may be a wonderful thing, or it might be good luck with that.

(31:45) 

Okay.

 (31:46) 

You're real passionate.

 (31:48) 

I can appreciate that.

(31:51) 

But what impact is that having on you and other people?

Ruth Lorensson

(31:56) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(31:57) 

Because if we don't identify passion, then we often will become just involved with passions.

Ruth Lorensson

(32:10) 

Go ahead.

 (32:12) 

It's like we need passion.

 (32:16) 

To me, passion is like an energy.

Tom Pals

(32:21) 

Literally.

Ruth Lorensson

(32:22) 

And it surrounds me in everything.

 (32:24) 

And when it's not there, we have to get it somewhere.

 (32:28) 

Like you say, we end up going to the things that feel good, that aren't the real passion.

(32:34) 

And that becomes very detrimental at that point.

 (32:38) 

But passion is something that, for me, when I'm kind of, I think, yeah, when I lose connection with my passion, it's very difficult to, I lose kind of a sense of purpose, perspective, all of those things.

 (32:59) 

It's like a domino effect.

(33:01) 

It can collapse quite easily.

 (33:04) 

But I think I love the overall, the people, purpose, perspective, perception, and passion.

 (33:11) 

And then, you know, and how important these are for the journey of wellness.

(33:16) 

You know, this whole season is the fundamentals of wellness.

 (33:19) 

These are fundamental parts of wellness.

 (33:22) 

And for anyone who is pursuing wellness, which hopefully everyone is, these are the things that are really important to grapple with, not just on their own, because they're very interconnected.

(33:35) 

And so thinking through, you know, okay, who are the people in my life?

 (33:40) 

Is this beneficial?

 (33:42) 

Like as an extrovert or introvert, have I got some blind spots here?

(33:47) 

Am I always doing the same thing and ending up nowhere?

 (33:50) 

You know, like that's like a red flag.

Tom Pals

(33:53) 

Purpose.

 (33:54) 

Where am I ending up?

 (33:55) 

Where am I going?

Ruth Lorensson

(33:56) 

What's my purpose?

 (33:58) 

And then, you know, with purpose, actually, you know, if you've been trying to do it all on your own, you might need people.

 (34:03) 

Like go find some people that will help you with your purpose.

(34:07) 

And the perspectives, I think, you know, I think again, if you have, if we as human beings have a very closed, like bubble-like perspective, it's going to be very difficult for us to be well.

(34:25) 

So, but again, that links back to people.

 (34:27) 

Find people with different perspectives.

(34:29) 

I was just telling you earlier on that I've got a new friend of mine that is really coming from a different perspective.

 (34:36) 

And, you know, I think some people can see that as a threat, but actually it's great.

 (34:43) 

It's opening my perspectives up.

(34:45) 

It's allowing me to see the world in a wider, more understandable point of view, because I'm seeing it from someone else's perspective.

Tom Pals

(34:56) 

Yep.

 (34:56) 

Which is positively contributing to your perception.

Ruth Lorensson

(35:01) 

Yes.

Tom Pals

(35:01) 

Of yourself and others and situations.

 (35:04) 

It's broadening that.

 (35:07) 

Not indiscriminately.

(35:08) 

But it's allowing you a much richer experience of perception, of the sensory processing, the words, the communication, the places, sensory processing, which helps you lean in more strongly with your passion.

Ruth Lorensson

(35:34) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(35:35) 

And brings clarity.

 (35:36) 

And that passion, if there's anything that thriving is about, it's passion.

Ruth Lorensson

(35:45) 

Absolutely.

 (35:46) 

And I just want to go back to that perspective thing.

 (35:49) 

I think it's one of the things, Tom, that in the world that we've, just in the recent history, in America at least, and probably all around the world right now, it's the one that I think people can see as a threat, like to widen their perspective.

(36:05) 

And yeah, I think it is the one, if we could just open that can up and just go, let's see this as wellness.

 (36:15) 

This is like a fundamental part of wellness for us to make sure that our perspective is beneficial.

 (36:26) 

And actually, if our perspective makes us not want to care for another human being or wants to take someone else's human rights away, our perspective needs looking at, you know?

(36:41) 

And we need to understand that we've all got a certain perspective from our upbringings, from the place we live, from the state we live in, like everything, the family culture will shape our perspective.

 (36:56) 

And the more and more we can grow as humans in learning perspective, I think the more we will kind of really root down into that wellness journey.

 (37:08) 

We don't have to change it.

(37:09) 

It's not about changing our minds or giving up, but it really is opening something up.

(37:14) 

And I really think it's linked to, I feel like, you know, the last, again, just a little bit of my own history, but the last few years, I would say my perspective has really opened up on a lot of different issues.

 (37:27) 

And I've, you know, chosen to read books that I wouldn't necessarily agree with or listen to people that have a different worldview to me and have friends that, you know, would come from a completely different faith background to me.

(37:45) 

And none of it has been detrimental.

 (37:48) 

It's actually been only beneficial.

 (37:51) 

And I would say that I'm more passionate about things because there's something about understanding the human race with perspective that, I don't know, feeds passion for me.

(38:04) 

So I just, there's a little mini preach there, but I just really think it's a really key one because I think that, you know, it's so easy to feel like, well, we don't want to open that up.

 (38:17) 

We don't want to explore a wider perspective or a more focused perspective.

 (38:23) 

Like it could be bigger or smaller, whatever it is, work on perspective if you're seeing things that are red flags for being detrimental.

Tom Pals

(38:33) 

Yep, because this is, wellness is about thriving, not just surviving.

 (38:40) 

People can contribute to thriving or people can impact it in your hope to survive it.

 (38:49) 

And people and purpose, hand in glove, influence, impact.

(38:57) 

And is that, are those people and that purpose, is it about thriving?

 (39:03) 

And the people and the purpose contribute to our perspective.

 (39:09) 

And is my perspective broadening or is it narrowing?

(39:14) 

A narrowing perspective really is about surviving.

 (39:21) 

A broadening perspective is about thriving.

 (39:26) 

All of those influence perception, my sensory processing of what I'm seeing, what I'm hearing, what I'm tasting, what I'm touching, interoception, what am I sensing in my own being and my experience with other people and a thriving perception is taking in more and more information.

(39:57) 

A surviving perception narrows sensory input, all of which impacts passion and negative detrimental people, purpose, perspective, and perception, no passion.

 (40:20) 

It's all lifeless on we.

 (40:24) 

Or people, beneficial.

(40:28) 

Purpose, beneficial.

 (40:31) 

Perspective, beneficial.

 (40:33) 

Perception, beneficial.

(40:36) 

Thriving.

 (40:39) 

Emotions, yes.

 (40:42) 

So those are those impactors, the fundamental aspects of thriving, which is all about wellness.

Ruth Lorensson

(40:52) 

Yeah, I love that, Tom.

 (40:53) 

And as we close out, just really want to encourage our listeners to maybe go through those.

 (40:59) 

Like we've done that ourselves, haven't we?

(41:02) 

We've kind of like write your list of people, make sure you're on it and ask yourself those questions.

 (41:07) 

And you might find one or a couple that are falling the detrimental part.

 (41:12) 

And that's where you can adjust and think, okay, well, what do I change here to make sure that I fall in that beneficial space, in that one?

(41:23) 

Because that will really help you on your journey to wellness.

 (41:28) 

You've been listening to the Autonomic Homeostasis Activation Podcast.

 (41:33) 

Join us next time as we continue in our conversations with Tom.

Tom Pals

(41:36) 

If you're interested in pursuing your own wellness journey, please check out our website, autonomichealing.org.

Ruth Lorensson

(41:45) 

You can also reach out to Tom at innerworkings.org.

Keywords:

interoception, homeostasis, autonomic nervous system, nervous system regulation, trauma recovery, somatic healing, body-based wellness, self-regulation, mind-body connection, living systems approach, neuroscience of wellness, Five P’s of Wellness, holistic wellness framework

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